In recent emails announcing his congress, Boston promoter Olaf sought to clear up a confusion by saying:
we’re having a bit of naming confusion on account of the “1st Annual Boston International Salsa Congress” that was put on by New York promoters at the Logan Airport last April, but this is the 4th annual real thing.
It’s reasonable to want to clear up any confusion people might have about which event is which, but calling one the “real thing” suggests the other isn’t – some sort of copy or cheap imitation. Better to promote one’s events on their own merit without taking swipes at others’. People who attend can make up their own mind about each.
Here’s my take on the name confusion. As any long time Boston salsa dancer knows, Olaf called his congress in its 3 prior years the “SalsaBoston mini-congreso”, the “2nd Annual New England Salsa Congreso”, and the “3rd Annual New England Salsa Congreso”. For whatever reason, he didn’t call it the “Boston Salsa Congress” those years. It’s only after April and David Melendez adopted that name for their congress and web site (BostonSalsaCongress.com) that Olaf wants to use that name. Seems to me an attempt to create confusion rather than clear it up.
I don’t mind there being two or even three congresses in Boston (e.g. Olaf’s New England Salsa Congress and April/David’s Boston Salsa Congress), but I would like to see organizers do their own thing without sniping at or swiping from each other.
Dear Anthony, an insider pointed me to this, which is the only reason I’m responding since I/we won’t get involved in any public debate on the subject, but in any case, we wish the 2nd Annual Boston International Salsa Congress the best of success.
-Olaf
SalsaBoston
Comment by Olaf Bleck — 9/1/2004 @ 11:46 am
Why bother splitting hairs here? Everyone knows that no matter what the OFFICIAL name of Olaf’s past events were, everyone called them the Boston Salsa Congress. We also used that name for the one in April. If people would stop trying to point out all the faults of the dancers and promotors around them, trying to prove who got where first or who has dibs on what, and deal with their own issues, ALL of us would be a lot better off.
The event in April was great, and the event in October will be great. Salsa isn’t a popularity contest, is it? Oh wait, maybe it is. See you all in October.
Comment by kate — 9/1/2004 @ 6:04 pm
Keep it real Olaf. No need for false affections or “explaining” why you are responding.
Comment by SalsaFrenzy II — 9/2/2004 @ 7:58 am
Kate, I don’t doubt your good intentions, but this is hardly splitting hairs. By recently changing the name of his event to “Boston Salsa Congress” and slapping a TM/trademark sign on it, Olaf is making a legal claim which is patently false.
While any number of people (but not “everyone” as I at least wasn’t one) might have conveniently, affectionately, or otherwise referred to his New England Salsa Congreso as the Boston Salsa Congress, that is not material. What is material is that he only adopted that name publicly as of a few weeks ago. On the other hand, April and David have publicly used *both* “Boston Salsa Congress” and “Boston International Salsa Congress” in an official business capacity since January if not prior.
Olaf’s intentions are clearly hostile, which is unfortunate. For whatever reason, he passed up the opportunity to call his event the Boston Salsa Congress in past years. It’s a little late for that now. As I said in my original post, better to promote one’s events on their own merit without taking swipes at others’.
Olaf and his organization’s energies could have just focused on promoting their event without involving April and David. His legal posturing forces them to defend the name of their Boston Salsa Congress and its reputation. I’m sure they had no prior inclination or interest in commenting about his congress.
Similarly, I bore no ill will to his congress this year. I added it to the SalsaFrenzy calendar as soon as I saw its initial announcement in July when he still called it the New England Salsa Congress. Given his subsequent actions, I feel compelled to comment on his outrageously false claim.
Comment by SalsaFrenzy II — 9/2/2004 @ 8:18 am
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/1
http://aprilon2.com/events/ (scroll down)
http://bostonsalsacongress.com/images/logo.jpg
Comment by brian — 9/2/2004 @ 10:07 am
Brian, as I said above, “April and David have publicly used *both* “Boston Salsa Congress” and “Boston International Salsa Congress” in an official business capacity since January if not prior.”
For examples of the former see any of the internal pages on their congress web site:
http://www.bostonsalsacongress.com/workshops.html
http://www.bostonsalsacongress.com/performances.html
http://www.bostonsalsacongress.com/hotel.html
Plus their announcements:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/2
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/3
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/4
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/5
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/6
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/7
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/8
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/9
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/10
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/11
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/12
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/13
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/14
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/15
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/16
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/17
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/18
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BostonSalsaCongress/message/19
And of course the registered domain name BostonSalsaCongress.com (dating from October 2003).
Comment by SalsaFrenzy II — 9/2/2004 @ 1:26 pm
I can’t comment on the intentions of Olaf or anyone else, but Olaf comes off as someone trying to smooth things over and you come off as someone constantly trying to prove Olaf wrong if nothing else. My real point about splitting hairs— who cares? Why bother blowing this so far out of proportion? But it’s too late now. Kudos to Olaf for trying to save face. What do you gain from investing so much effort in showing what you think Olaf is all about?
Comment by kate — 9/2/2004 @ 2:18 pm
My questioning comes from the point that officially April’s and David’s event was presented to Boston as the “Boston International Salsa Congress”. Their logo, introduction letter, emails, the support from the salsa community, and if I recall very well, the welcoming page to their site was done using that name. If indeed your claim that the term “Boston Salsa Congress” was used/coined by them, why not use it since then…as the official name?. That would have made anybody else claiming rights to it null. Don’t you think?.
Would it be that in the minds of the organizers the term was already in use and in people’s minds as being related to SalsaBoston?. Thus driving the organizers to choose to name their event as the “Boston International Salsa Congress”. As a matter of fact, a simple search in the internet shows me that the “Boston Salsa Congress” term, prior to 2004, has been used by many organizations, local and non local, and all of them relate/refer it as a Salsaboston event.
Brian
Comment by Brian — 9/2/2004 @ 2:36 pm
Brian, I appreciate your reply, but at the risk of repeating myself from comment #4 above, I said that while any number of people (i.e. third parties) might have referred to the New England Salsa Congreso as the Boston Salsa Congress, that was not the name used by its organizers. On the other hand April and David did use that name – along with Boston International Salsa Congress – from the onset in an official capacity (they are entitled to have two or more names for their products or services). I didn’t say they coined it, and they didn’t need to have done so in order to use it since no one else was using it officially for their own event.
My basic point is that Olaf’s trademark claim (which is a legal assertion) doesn’t hold water. That’s what all of this boils down to.
Comment by SalsaFrenzy II — 9/2/2004 @ 3:10 pm
Kate, here’s why I’m not blowing this out of proportion and why I say Olaf’s intentions are hostile in this instance. When you put a trademark sign on something you are asserting exclusive ownership of it. Kind of like copyright but stronger. Kind of like patent but weaker. If the claim is out there and uncontested, the trademark can become yours and others can’t use it. You may not know this, but Olaf presumably does.
When I speak of hostile intentions, I mean he is attempting to lay the groundwork for prohibiting April and David from calling their event the Boston Salsa Congress. I suspect his hope was that the TM sign would go unnoticed for a while and when April and David start promoting their event he would move to stop them from using that name. This is what I mean by he is now forcing April and David to respond. It isn’t a case of his *also* calling his event the Boston Salsa Congress, but a case of being the only one allowed to do so.
What do I gain from investing so much effort in showing what I think Olaf is all about as you put it? I’m not in this for any gain or loss. It bothers me when people capriciously throw their weight around or attempt to pull the wool over other people’s eyes as seems to be the case in this instance.
Comment by SalsaFrenzy II — 9/2/2004 @ 3:58 pm
If you stand for what you are saying.
“they are entitled to have two or more names for their products or services). I didn’t say they coined it, and they didn’t need to have done so in order to use it since no one else was using it officially for their own event.”
your statement is incorrect, salsaboston did use it, starting with its first installment of the event back in 2001.
http://salsaboston.com/archive/SalsaUpdate124.html
http://salsaboston.com/archive/SalsaUpdate202.htm
Brian
Comment by brian — 9/2/2004 @ 4:26 pm
Brian, having taken the time to review many pages on that site and relevant emails, I don’t see in the two examples you provide a formal adoption of the “Boston Salsa Congress” name on the part of Olaf/SalsaBoston. Certainly not relative to the body of email, print, and web literature calling it first the “SalsaBoston mini-congreso” and later the “New England Salsa Congreso.” Also not relative to April and David’s pervasive and consistent usage of the Boston Salsa Congress name from the onset.
Additionally, I’m not aware that Olaf contested April and David’s use of the Boston Salsa Congress name at the time (though that might have occurred in private). I do know that contemporaneous with their congress, Olaf still called his event the New England Salsa Congreso, explaining in a 4/04 email:
So I’m not buying the name change and the trademark attempt. It all seems rather hostile which is unfortunate. To be clear, I have no issue with Boston having two congresses nor with Olaf’s upcoming congress in particular, other than this case of name heavy handedness.
Comment by SalsaFrenzy II — 9/7/2004 @ 3:31 pm
Well, I do see why salsaboston did not have or should have complained at all. The official presentation for the April event was under another name “Boston International Salsa Congress” a name that salsaboston had no interest or rights to use at all. It would had been foolish for him or anybody else to use a name that is already in people’s mind as being part or referring to something/somebody else.
I think he saw that the community was embracing the congress in April as presented, the Boston international salsa congress, thus not pushing him to do anything. As a matter of fact looking at many emails and post from other local groups/sites none of them (except you and the organizers) have called the April event as the Boston salsa congress.
About the quote of Olaf name is event the “New England…,” I can see that in your yahoo group there is an email from April Genovese one of the promoters of the april event, calling olaf’s event “Boston Salsa Congreso”. Don’t you think that gives you the impression that they, the promoters, knew ahead of time the Boston salsa congress name was already in use?
We could be back and forth with the allegation of who has said what and when. I think the facts are clear that both are great events and both are supported on the salsa community. and that the community has already decided who is Boston salsa congress and the Boston International Salsa congress, regardless what any interested party might say and we should respect that.
Oh by the way I used the links and they are working, try again and look for “Boston Salsa Congress”
http://salsaboston.com/archive/SalsaUpdate124.html
http://salsaboston.com/archive/SalsaUpdate202.htm
Brian
Comment by brian — 9/9/2004 @ 2:20 pm
Brian, your first two paragraphs contradict each other. In the first you say “the official presentation for the April event was under another name ‘Boston International Salsa Congress'”. In the second paragraph you say “none of them (except you and the organizers) have called the April event as the Boston salsa congress”.
In matters such as this all that matters is what the organizers call their event and as Ahmed originally posted, “the name ‘Boston Salsa Congress’ is that of the congress organized by April Genovese in association with David Melendez last April”.
If there’s still any doubt about this, check the wording on the banner behind the stage visible in many of the gallery pictures:
http://www.bostonsalsacongress.com/2004/gallery.html
http://www.cnrproductions.com/Boston_Congress/Friday/HTML/boston_friday_008.htm?page=1&delay=3
I certainly wouldn’t agree with your claim in your last paragraph of what the facts are, what the community has “already decided”, or for that matter that it’s not for the interested parties (e.g. April and David) to decide what to call their event as you seem to suggest.
Comment by SalsaFrenzy II — 9/9/2004 @ 3:38 pm
No they do not contradict, Actually they complement each other, read them again
In one I said the “event in april was presented as the “Boston international Salsa congress” and the other says no local group has ever called the april event as “boston salsa congress”, of course except in emails or posts by you and the organizers.
What these statements try to explain is that the community is clear on knowing who is organizing what and when. They do not have a confusion on the names. This is reflected on the their websites email and posts.
Like you said, “In matters such as this all that matters is what the organizers call their event” and I agree 100% with you. But then this discussion should be a closed one, since the name/term “boston salsa congress” was used by the SalsaBoston way before April and David’s event, in 2001 don’t you think?
The proof? read previous posts or search in Google, just in case you cant find it.
Comment by Brian — 9/9/2004 @ 4:57 pm
Will the real slim shady please stand up?
It’s funny to see that there is even a struggle in the salsa industrial complex at congress level.
What’s the ‘real thing’? The real thing is what the natives do in the respective Meccas of Salsa.
You have to go to Colombia, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Panama, and Cuba. Not to the middle class clubs, but
to the street parties during festivities. Then, and only then will you realize how you poor innocent
students are being fleeced for your regular dollar income.
Viva la revolución, que vivan los rumberos!
It is refreshing to see another fresh opinion about the salsa scene. Thanks for the link to the salsa taliban blog.
Just posted an article with the same title.
Well, at least there is someone elese with a clear and distinct opinion about the salsa scene.
Comment by Latin Looter — 9/21/2004 @ 10:09 am